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Because the aliens are comin I tell yer. stores it in a unique power bank Report comment. if i entered a meeting with an investor and dropped that line without further explanation on exactly how it works i would have been escorted out, don t even let me start with an employer Report comment. That s the thing, you re neither to them. But LG would demo it in the store for you wouldn t it. Give, for instance, LG a call and ask them for detailed info on how their LCD screens are manufactured, let us know what they say ;- Tell them your thinking of pre-ordering their latest model but don t believe it works, ask them for a schematic and a detailed report on how they wish to acheive 4k in a 1mm panel let us know how it pans out.

com help guidelines are very clear about No product simulations. It s the dragon in my garage problem. Now LG would gladly and are required to give the customers the power requirements of their TVs Apple will also gladly specify the charger requirements for their products, or back in the day sony wouldn t hide how many AA were needed for a walkman Likewise is no big deal to ask for the Electromanetic Irradiance W m 2 or any apropriate radiometry units needed to power such a device indefinitely so that customers can check if this is realistic with their intended operating environment wouldn t you agree stevetyson2014.

As for power requirements, I agree there too, yes they are obliged to publish these but they are generally quite useless when trying to reverse engineer a product or prove its viability. As soon as they provide credible evidence I will personally get in line and endorse as well as help spread the word in favor but for now the evidence just isn t there. The thread is about whether it can work and howI believe it can, but, only under certain conditions.

They give very little insight into what lies beneath. Their description seems to state it will work ad infinitum which is a little less believable. W m 2 would be useful, not sure how many customers would be able to measure this though. Just to be clear, I haven t found anything to totally dismiss their claims but, like you, would love to see a demo. If their claims are true then it could be a very long demo.

I hate to be that guybut I m with you on this one either they re sitting on something faaar bigger or there are some magical unicorn farts in the mix. It will be interesting to see how this pans out. They don t need unicorns, they figured out zero-point energy. It s like a unicorn but less fun to pet. Although if we do have unlimited energy and the first use was to find a remote I m hopping on the first super-shuttle off this galaxy.

The unique power bank sounds like some sort of super capacitor. super caps are far too large at this point to do anything like this. Not really, they come in all sizes these days. but not in the size required to fit in a package that small while having the necessary current capacity. Don t they have quite some leakage current as well. I think the supercap capacities of graphene can be laid flat in a very small space with a huge capacity. I could envision radio waves, which are energy always available in the air ,being harvested as a voltage and stored in a supercap.

There are supercaps that could do this and with very low leakage current ie 1 μA loss 120 hours. However putting them plus everything else on a device selling for 16 is challenging. Either way they will be using a boost converter so the rechargeable battery tech is a moot point. Supercaps and to a lesser extent LiPols are considered leakybut the leakage is proportional to capacity internal surface area, more directly.

This would most likely be using ambient RF harvesting of some kind Google WISPeither assuming some signal of opportunity HDTV, Wifi or with the Tx device spamming the air with packets, and the tag responding every 1000th packet or so whenever it has saved up enough juice for a single response packet. The internal power source would only need some mJ of energy, enough to cover one Tx packet and overcome any quiescent usage self-discharge for the power-saving duration between replies.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I think it s the claims which are vague yes, it may never need a battery replacement but that must only apply to their idea of normal operating conditions which aren t stated. Yes, it could harvest enough power to do stuff a certain number of times per insert time frame here.

Without normal operating conditions or some, published, assumed usage scenario then it could appear to be a perpetual motion machine and we all know about those, right. Maybe it has its own flux capacitor. Most likely this. Or one of several forms of thin-film battery Cymbet, whoever liquidated InfinitePowerSolutions, etc.tiny LiPol or tiny polyacene cell would do the job.

Replying just to say I m using uses quantum top hats to explain unrealistic technology to people now. A 16 ghz ten core processor that uses less than 5 watts of power, and will do your laundry for you. How did they make that work. Uses quantum top hats, obviously. hahaha i made it up on the spot im glad you like it XD. Yeah that was a badass joke quantum top hats. Really like it too p. Iq option icon discrediting kickstarter thing is getting a bit tedious.

We know it s a cheap way of getting incoming links and page views for hackaday but there IS NO HACK ELEMENT. Come on guys, get it sorted. Even without the hack element I find it quite interesting to see the method they use to try to prove disprove a concept. Ok, I agree, LG would be able to demo unless you pre-ordered an item which wasn t yet ready for release like pre-ordering a new ipad version.

My money is on a small, rechargeable coin cell or LiPo cell. This energy harvesting topic seems quite interesting, actually. And I m sure a lot of hacking goes into designing something like that if it actually works. Either way, it s something to think about but if you rather yawn, well. There are government imposed limits on the elecomagnetic field strength that the population should be exposed to, to avoid frying their brains and other more subtle problems.

The limit is something like 1 mW square cm so, just maybe, it s possible to get enough power in populated areas lots of transmitters of all types. The problem would be efficiently capturing the energy. If you attached a few tv antennas, a couple of fm antennas, a long wire and ground system plus a microwave dish or two it should work fine.

In general, receiving antennas aren t very efficient. B-but muh circlejerk. Speaking as someone just cutting their teeth in the hardware world, it s actually a bit interesting to hear experienced electronics experts discuss How they might go about making this technology work, or why they think it s totally impossible.

You re right, however, that there is no hack here. And this isn t StarterBustersADay. Maybe this sort of content is best left for the forum. Ha, totally tried that fake website. I very much enjoy the technical discussions these bring up, the term Hack is so mislabeled these days anyways. MAKE is more appropriate these days. As long as they churn out 1 Hack Day I feel I m getting more than I deserve. Yeah hack is an antiquated term.

I didn t know we could count on that loophole Good lookin out. There most certainly IS a hack element. They re potentially exposing HACKS here. Just a different usage of the word, that s all. HAD, don t stop these articles. They iq option icon great despite what this muppet says. These replies are awesome other than detailless replies and some are actually trying to solve the problem or at least ask questions about the most difficult areas.

I must have missed all the other times HaD dismissed kickstarters as dubious. That s quite impressive of me. I did notice a lot of very dubious projects on kickstarter though, things that get plenty of funding and then never anything is heard again. or they make a billion from selling out to facebook. But without HAD highlighting them, I wouldn t know about these products. And if I don t know about them, I can t laugh at them.

They are doing a public service here. Come on, everyone comes for the hacks, but we stay for the flame. supercap and a mini dynamo. The Dialog DA14580 BLE SoC runs on about 0. 5 μA at 3V in deep-sleep mode. Granted transmit mode is 5 mA 3V note the mbut I guess if they do it very very briefly and then go back to deep sleep it might be possible. Add a supercap and Bob s your uncle. The device just needs to send an advertising packet anyway, nothing fancy.

That said they sure look tiny for an RF harvester. May be a embedded coin cell baterry in the tag. This would give him some time to get the money until the people realized that doesn t harvest anything except his money. ; in spanish we say pelotazo maybe shot in english. Sounds like the shake lights that in the legitimate versions use a supercap about the size of a coin cell battery.

The fake ones use a battery, and consequently they work for a few days then poof. Also reminds me of the irritating motherboards with the CMOS battery soldered on. i see them in those solar powered dollar store lights, i m sure you can find them for smaller. Yes you can use ambient energy in the air to power your BT device, however you just need your ambient power to be high. IE near a radio-station, near a power line. Really you will not have enough power to actually do any real data passing, but if you harvest energy for several days, and only use it for a few seconds.

I have no reason to believe it cant work. that being said there is not a big enough antenna to be broad band enough to actually harvest meaningful amounts of energy. The narrow band power an average device is around is so low you would never be able to gather meaningful amounts of energy, but the power across the spectrum may be enough. when collected over a few days. My opinion with respect to power the radio off BT power Impossible, you are talking about using -40 to -80 dBm of BURST rf power at duty cycles of Report comment.

What about the a c in house power lines. The problem is that the antenna for energy harvesting would need to be quite large. Ideally, yeah. In practice, no. The 50Hz is so prominent that without proper filtering it gets everywhere in electronic Ccts, regardless of their size. A full wavelength antenna at 50Hz would be 5995 Km 3725 miles. I was thinking about inductive coupling, you dont need a huge amount of energy to make this work, but you do need more then is available via the packets you are receiving.

In the near field a transformer coil is sufficient. Even in the far field a tuned-loop can do. But I m not sure there is actually that much noise energy down in this range in comparison to that which comes from intentional radiation. why couldn t they use a coin cell rechargeable. Impressive statement but any antenna picks up all frequencies it is only the filters that take unwanted frequency energy out and feed it back to ground while isolating the wanted group of frequencies.

So with tuned circuitry this can be picked out and channeled to a cap quite easily. Wavelengths that are too long for the antenna will only pick up with greatly reduced power. Teeny antennas only pick up very high frequencies, on which nothing is transmitted at very high power. Yes the signals are still there but at a much much attenuated power level. And if you had a tuneable filter or filters and could tune to highest RX sig strength and harvest from that then you re onto a winner.

With a wideband fractal antenna plus a bank of tuneable filters which are have their frequency pulled by a uC it could work. A uC can be extremely low power and you could have some passive signal strength monitors at common frequencies. Kind of like how antenna diversity is implemented but swap antenna for frequency ie. dynamically choose the frequency which has the highest rssi and use that for harvesting. I hope to god you are not using enough power to generate strong enough magnetic fields to be useful for this application.

i am thinking that you would need several KV and and sever a huge amount of current to make this work I am not saying it is feasible, what i am saying is it is possible to harness enough energy from the air to do things, if you are in a place that has a huge amount of energy in the air. They don t need much energy and it s all around us, much more than they need. People have been harvesting it for years, the only question I have is what antenna they use and how it s tuned to get the best power transfer at the best frequency and the right time.

Just a heads up of the latest comments of this project. I purchased 3 of the StickNFind location stickers. They did not work very well. Many times the connection was lost and many times they could not be found. I am very disappointed in the product. these StickNFind buttons do not work as advertised. They constantly make false separation alarmseven when the button is within 12 inches of the iPhone it is paired with. have never felt more robbed.

this campaign is the reason i would never fund another tech indiegogo campaign. The shape is too suspicious. It is begging for a CR-2032 inside. My guess is they put a CR-2032 inside and lied about the rest. It is possible to use NFC but many phones, including ALL iPhones I believe, has no NFC. And NFC range is very very poor. If the company can really pull energy through thin air and enough to power BT-LE, they would have solved A LOT of problems. Their technology could easily worth Billions.

Common sense says NO. Some of the people listed under our core members have strong pedigree. That is a reason to think the product will have the claimed features. Unless some of those people come out and distance themselves from the campaign. The best energy harvesting device i ve seen using RF was a card like a credit card with a LED that light up when placed into the field of a NFC reader like you would do with a NFC tag.

maybe 200ft in a vacuum, and the tranmitter is placed inside a parabolic dealybob to broadcast focused upon the reciever. these specs are like car stereos, that will say 10,000 watts. A 200ft 60m detection range seems too much to me. and have 25 amp fuses in them. with math, when you round all your numbers up, you reach 800 watts. then you jump that to a thousand because whatever, no one regulates it. and then you put your safety mechanisms in, and limit it to 300, if the fuse is faulty and doesn t blow at quite 25 amps.

regarding Our apologies. At the moment we can t offer free international shipping since we are a US based company and we have to pay both shipping fee and the export taxes to other countries outside of the continental USA. yes you can offer free international shipping by eating the costs like many ebayers do and just tack the cost onto the item cost.

have you ever wondered why the same product can go for 100 with free shipping in 1 listing and the next listing from the same user has 1 penny for the item and 100 for shipping. If it is genuine, I would hazard a guess that they are using cap-xx supercapacitors. thanks for the link. they look quite interesting indeed. Wow, those look very cool. It s pretty impressive that they re able to cram 1200 mF into a 3mm tall package.

Shame they re pretty limited to pretty much just dealing with power spikes and energy harvesters. Even so, very neat. Lithium thin film batteries still have much greater energy capacity. Based on the claimed lifetime, I m fairly certain they arrived at-it having done a back-of-the-envelope calculation in reference to a lithium-thin-film battery datasheet. Unfortunately, Infinite Power Solutions makers of the Thinergy batteries is not doing so well and supply of the thinergy cells is scarce.

ST has an EnFilm line, too, but this is not available yet. I suspect that the iFind creators have yet to realize this supply problem. I was just looking for a Thinergy battery solution but your above email has confirmed my suspicions. Do you know of another company that supports a similar battery. Do you have any contacts of any of the previous employees. I m assuming this product line may have been picked up by another company, but if it has it s not being marketed as Thinergy.

On their KS page, they say they have some patents, so I looked for them. The search is more successful with the co-founder of iFinder s company, Dr. Paul McArthur. OS PN 6788199 20 28B2 29 RS PN 6788199 20 28B2 29 To summarize, the patent is on a RFID chip, not a Bluetooth chip. RFID doesn t require a battery from what I remember. com patents US7148801 maybe the same. says The transceiver module can also include a battery that is operable to power the second memory unit, the second receiver, the second transmitter, the second timer, and the second control unit.

In one embodiment, the transceiver module is powered by radio frequency energy. My thoughts exactly, Luc. Without a battery, this sounds like RFID rather than bluetooth. My understanding is that RFID tags ARE powered by harvested RF. Yes they are, but have a range limited to the magnetic filed of the reader. For most readers that is a few cm, but for some IE 2 W with highly directive antennas it can be a few meters.

NFC normally operates up to 10cm or so having said that, you can create a device to listen in to a conversation between a tag and a reader a lot further away than that. RFID gen 2 Tags readers there are a host of static and mobile. Think Impinj speedway, Alien Technologies, Zebra Motorola MC319Z, Nordic ID merlin, and many others.

They will pick passive tags up from several meters and typically run at 0. 5W 2W depending on local laws. While not industry standard, IPC RFID tags and readers can have pretty impressive performance as well. With all RFID, a lot depends on the tag and what the tag is attached to in addition to the reader. A tag designed to operate in free air e. an apparel swing tagwill not be happy attached to a can of fizzy drink for example and will significantly under perform.

RFID tags can also be active with a power supply or passive. Passive ones are cheaper, but in more challenging environments, powered tags are an option. This is all true, but doesn t get to how they could develop a tag that could be read over UHF RFID using phones that don t have UHF RFID readers. I work specifically with UHF RFID reader chips, and I am confident that there are no existing reader chips that are considered acceptable for smartphones, let alone in existing phones.

Restrictions include size and power consumption. Even if we did have UHF RFID reader chips in our phones and I hope that one day we will they wouldn t achieve BTLE read ranges, which the KS campaign promises. Moreover, they explicitly state they are using BTLE. My money is on overly optimistic designers or outright vaporware. I would give this project a 2 chance of meeting its promises, and yes, I d be happy to put money on it. The following video seem to be a first draft of their kickstarter video.

take a look at what the narrator says at 2 55 and compare it with the original kickstarter video. - It utilizes a combination of rfid bluetooth technology vs - It utilizes bluetooth technology. which would indicate a Gen2 BLE style hibrid nonetheless it would only work as long as there were Impinj portals nearby to act as wireless charger for a battery that shouldn t exist now this would make the whole thing a lot more plausible.

Unfortunately they are specific saying it s not RFID either on the comments. My best guess is that they re hoping the tag will normally live in your pocket next to your phone and be able to suck up the radio energy and store it in a battery capacitor to tide it over when it s away from a power source.

Pocket energy is maybe up to 2W for GSM 3G only inches away from your tag device, brain, genitals, etc So can be pretty helpful for charging your tag or making you infertile or stupid Do we really believe those claims any more. I expect if you leave the tag in a field and expect it to work, you ll be disappointed. That s an excellent suggestion Max.

Except the 2 Watts is only when you are in a call, and only when you are iq option icon low band GSM, and that is typically used only when you are using voice calling, AND it is designed to work iq option icon the minimum usable power, so you only will get 2W when you are at the edge of all cell towers in your area. So mostly this is a really really poor assumption. I think it may be a safe assumption that the KS creators are suffering from quite a few poor assumptions.

They mention shaking the tag to find your phone. Is it possible they ve got a small kinetic energy generator in the device that s harvesting energy. Everyone seems to be jumping straight to RF energy harvesting. If there is a small enough generator, and a supercap, I could see attaching the tag to stuff that s always on the move, generating energy. From his patent III. The basic circuit is connected to an onboard power source 116 a battery, such as a coin cell battery, a double layer capacitor, a lithium ion battery, or a thin film battery.

Based on unique power conservation programming algorithms, even the most basic device has an operating life in active mode of at least three months six months for average useThis life is extendable using a power harvesting component 117 operating via a light sensitive component e. a solar cella RF sensitive device e. a coil, antennaa mechanically sensitive device e. a piezo-electric PZT, a bimorph, a ceramic, a coil with a magnet or temperature sensitive device e.

Using ambient vibrations picked up by the piezo buzzer as a power source. I wonder if anything has done that before. Prior art would involve going wayyyyy back to the early telephones that ran on voice power and used the speaker for a microphone. I don t think anyone is jumping to the RF harvesting it s right on the company s blog they posted a link in their KS update. how do you shake it if it is lost.

The idea is that you shake it if you _have_ a tag, but you ve lost your phone I m deeply suspicious of this project s claims of running on harvested energy. It ll be interesting to go back well after the funding date and see what s happening in the comments. The idle power consumption isn t really relevant it wouldn t be running idle, it would simply be off most of the time. No need to listen all the time for a ping, if it listens once every couple of seconds that s fine.

It s more a question of whether you can build a rectenna that small which can deal with the leakage currents in the threshold detection circuitry, power switch circuitry, rectifiers and whatever capacitor you use for storage ultracaps seem right out. It needs to be in idle since it has to wake up when contact is attempted, when you want to try to find the tag. Most uCs have a sleep and watchdog wakeup timer. And when those are enabled you have an idle power consumption.

Hench the idle consumption remarks. still, a periodic wakeup timer can be implemented with an average current draw of only about 100nA, much less than the 10uA quoted above. Which draws a small amount of power, but firing up the RF receiver will draw a few mA for a few milliseconds. Thus the 10uA average. How do you synchronize the wake listen for pings every few minutes. It would go into a sleep mode, but it does not turn off the radio completely. You wake up every 5 seconds, only long enough to recognize a signal maybe a couple milliseconds.

Your transmitter broadcasts for 6 seconds when pinging, no need for any synchronization. The very successful Sticknfind campaign It may have been successful, but from the reviews I ve seen they are rather cheap and suck. Also Sticknfind has failed to deliver their other products they claimed where nearly complete over a year ago.

I backed this project, can confirm they have some bugs. It s probably a rechargeable battery. Since the theory is that t will get recharged over and over the user will never have to replace it. As such its magic to the user and they can say, look over here, user, there s no battery that you need to worry about and its the coolest thing ever. OBVIOUSLY, they found Tesla s old energy transmission towers, and are planning to stand them up and get them working.

Considering that I build a device not too much different than iFind at least from a basic perspectiveand I know the state of the art for wireless energy harvesting as well as anyone does, I would be VERY hesitant to pre-order one of these. Let s look at other BLE trackers, Stick n Find and Tile, and then compare the state-of-the art to the pie-in-the-sky claims of the iFind. Stick n Find Stick n Find has had a disastrous reception from its users.

In my testing, it has about one or two months of charge in the 2016 cell, and it is basically impossible to replace it. The range is about 10-15m. Tile Tile needed to enlarge their device substantially in order to accommodate a CR2032, needed to have one year battery life, and in order to enlarge the antenna to get a mere 30m range. Tile is now looking like 38 x 38 x 6mm or so. Looking more deeply into this iFind, the solution size of a rechargeable battery, the charge controller IC, and the energy harvesting element is too thick for their quoted dimensions.

In 2012 iq option icon I was beginning the designing my product, I had even prototyped lithium-thin-film batteries, but these are still impractical for a bunch of reasons I won t go into. If you pre-order this product, it will either never ship, or it will ship in a form completely different than the one that is promised. In the FAQ they have another suspicious claim Is there any Visual alerts for people with hearing issues. Yes, the iFind App does have a visual locating display showing the estimated direction and distance.

I m not aware of any phone that has direction finding RF capability. And how about some image analysis. On the top image, the apple keys 15 x 15 mm are very close to 15 pixels tall and wide. The tag is only 26 22 pixels, meaning it is smaller than the 32x27mm stated. Comparing the cat s paws to the tag would mean the cat s paws would be almost 2. 5 long and it s head close to 7 across.

That s one big cat. Considering that Kickstarter prohibits renderings of final products, I m throwing a flag there. Using the phone compass and RF strength while turning about with the phone will be able to give you a good approximation ignoring multipathing etc of RF direction, so there you go. Also the same thing with distance with regards to RF strenth received. All approximations but would be good enough to provide a showy app if the tag works. Antennas in phones are not directional.

and multipath does not guarantee that getting closer to the phone means stronger signal. Sigh, no they are not, however, with a weak signal like low power bluetooth, and you in a room swinging a phone about, you will be an effective shield at the 2. 4 ghz it operates at, turning yourself and the phone into a hokey approximation of a directional antenna.

As I mentioned, mainly gimmick, but it does have a little basis to work with. Some of you mention that you don t like the can this kickstarter claim be for real postings, but I, for one, find the discussion on these kind of topics very interesting. Clearly there iq option icon some very intelligent and resourceful posters on HaD and I always end up learning something new from the comments posted. I discovered many interesting things thanks to our readers.

The following is from the iFind FAQ. Is it possible that the battery of iFind tag dies. To begin with, iFind tag doesn t have a battery. Instead, it uses our patent pending EM Harvesting technology and stores the energy in a uniquely designed power bank. In other words, iFind tag powers itself. - In the worst case scenario, let s say you lost your tag in the middle of a remote desert, where there s no EM wave at all, the tag will still hold power for days.

Power bank sounds like flim-flam for battery. remote desert where there s no EM wave at all Um, unless it was underground as well, there s still light, which is EM. Not to mention the strange grammar of that sentence. Also the fact that there is plenty of EM in every desert on the planet, even in Antarctica. The trouble with RF harvesting is that there just isn t that much energy available. Assuming that the noise floor in the 2. 45 GHz band is a consistent -90dBM Hz, that is barely enough to power a BLE device assuming that the conversion to DC is near-perfect.

The other problem is that the 2. 45 GHz band, as noisy as it is, is only a consistent -90dBm Hz in truly noisy environments. Even if the conversion was 100 efficient, I don t see how the device could harvest enough power to function. According to their FAQ, the power bank will last for days even without EM. They also indicate their app will display the charge level of any tag s power bank. I m almost 100 sure the power bank they are considering here is a Lithium Thin-Film battery.

Anyway, I m less skeptical that it s possible than I am skeptical it can be done in the form factor they specify for the price they offer. 45 GHz band alone, it is conceivable to build a device in this form factor, but not for 14 and not reliable. Using multiple RF bands for input energy requires multiple antennas and multiple tuning circuits, though, in addition to a somewhat exotic semiconductor chemistry to pass multiple bands in far away spectrums.

So high cost. com good-true-tour-ifind-battery-free-feature This page attempts to explain the device s EM harvesting. However, the explanation lacks any detail whatsoever. Even with a really efficient horn, in a development environment running hundreds of devices on BT and with several wifi AP, i don t think i have ever seen 90 dBm Hz using an efficient antenna.

Typically i see 90 dBm 10KHz or less. And yes i have done the math one this one several times. Even adding moving to cell band, the bandwidth you would get a tiny amount of power. If it communicates at 2. 4GHz, why would you limit the power-reception to that frequency. Why not make a very wide antenna rectenna. From lets say 17. 1800MHz, up till 100GHz. Using lower frequencies 88-108MHz transmitters for example is not really useful for a battery free small tagsince your antenna construction would be larger.

The trade-of is size weight versus power. NFC tags can communicate at several meters. not centimeters. They actually do mass check-in out for people at train stations in some countries, using big antennas above for example escalators. And take a look at CherrySwitches, they make produce energy harvesting switches, and NXP the IC s. Cherry even has 802. 4 supportive switches. Through Cherry itn t using RF. It s a option. and commercially available. I ll think those BLE energy harvesting tags could exist.

To make a quick addition. Check out NXP EnOcean. I don t see any problems with those BLE tags. Those examples do not harvest energy from RF signals. They convert the energy from the mechanical force when you push the switch lever. Looks like at least 1500 backers, at time of writing, are all going to get ripped off. To what degree of ripped off is yet to be seen.

It s all too good to be true and some people obviously don t realise where the limits of current technology are to be able to compare this to. Their ignorance will be their undoing, quite right too, suckers. All very plausible Antenna Wideband fractal printed on their PCB substrate. Compact and can be very wideband. Low input V, low Iq, boost converter Linear Tech do a few for energy harvesting apps. htm BLE silicon Plenty around. I think it becomes unbelievable when they make out that it s got an endless source of power.

It does kind of there are EM waves everywhere but that endless source of power is very very low. Their energy storage component will deplete pretty quick should that loud beeper keep beeping for a few mins and you keep polling the BLE tag. In summary, it s all possible but they need to ensure they include some caveats and manage expectations.

Once the energy storage component is fully depleted I wonder how long it takes to charge it up again say, to a point where it can communicate and power its beeper. VHF and UHF tv transmissions are consistent power sources, and I ve seen videos a device powered off TV signals. But all it could do was flash an LED, and it had a dipole antenna that was about 20cm long. So I think given the size and power requirements, I d say it s bogus.

To be fair, it s probably at least an order of magnitude more current to flash an LED vs the 10uA required for BLE idle. I know it is not a hack, but I still enjoy seeing the reasons how WiFi GSM DVB-T ATSC can never generate enough power to power up a BLE device. Yeah, it s a good brain workout, when those who know start explaining exactly why it won t work. Gives some of us a bit of extra knowledge in a new area, which is always worth having.

Interesting, it reminds me of the Lunacase, also on kick starter. It s a case with a few LED notifications built in but no power source, rather claiming to rely on the elctromagnetic radiation from your phone. i remember five-ten years ago having a pen that had a LED at the back that would light up whenever there was an incoming call on my cellphone or any phone within 5 meters running completely passive only on GSM harvested energy yes, i did rip it apart eventually to verify, it was an awesome piece of chinese hackery.

I see no reason why this shouldn t work with BTLE. Oh yeah, those horrible little dongles were everywhere, every street-corner vendor of low-quality cellphone accessories at least. I thought they had a battery inside. Most did, but I also recall a device like this in the form of a sticker that one would place on the phone s case near the antenna that seemed far to small to contain a battery. I could be wrong. I also seem to recall said device claiming to reduce harm to the user caused by the phone s radiation.

They aren t passive. They have a tiny battery in. I pulled a Disney Mickey Mouse one apart for a PC mobile-phone activated on switch. You basically use a antenna and a diode detector to trickle charge a battery via remote RF illumination. It should be doable. BTW, this is kind like how those NSA retro-reflector bugs work. There is no voltage in that, you will never trickle charge anything.

you need your voltage to be stepped up above your battery voltage. Stepping up from a few tens of mV is easily done and at good efficiency. Many manufacturers, such as Linear Tech, make these DC-DC boost converters. I really don t see an issue with their claims TBH. What is suspect is that they aren t giving any caveats with them. Nobody ever consider using a Joule Thief for power management. They are ridiculously inefficient, so it is unlikely that they could be used in something like this.

You stole my thunder. I was gonna recommend a joule thief. Of course it could be an orgone-energy RF joule thief a jouluminous ether-thief, if you will. Even ignoring the battery or lack of the are also couple of other things a-miss here. Firstly the size. They mention it is 2. 4mm thick, now assuming it s injection moulded then there will be a minimum wall thickness of about 0. 7mm reducing the internal space to a mere 1mm.

I would be amazed if they could all the required circuitry and also a buzzer at least a buzzer that s louder than a flea s fart in that space. Especially considering the space which needs to be left around the BLE antenna for it to work properly. Secondly throughout the video the bluetooth icon never comes to life when they are demoing the app. May just be for video purposes but still odd. Thirdly the 200ft 60m range claim. Now in an open area it is definitely possible to achieve this distance with a standard spec BLE antenna with the TX power set around 5dbm, however it would be a very unstable connection, and would drop out if you looked it the wrong way.

In the real world usage, like for example when you put your phone in your pocket, you would not really see more than 100ft 30m. Could be molded around the PCB instead heat problems with that, of course, although maybe some thermosets would be tolerable. Could be vacuum formed. Rigid thin plastic makes a fairly good mechanical gain medium to make the beeper louder. Could be pressed metal but is electrically conductive and would interfere with EM absorption unless they re being reeeeeally clever.

Funny diplane antenna with plastic spacer. And it s biodegradable, too. Not saying that the Kickstarter has access to Israeli army research because that would be highly unlikelyjust pointing out that Quantum Tophats might be around sooner rather than later. For better lack of a description it seems like they have overclocked or hacked what we would traditionally identify as RFID to be compatible with the bluetooth 4.

Maybe some kind of motion-energy capture too. They mention shaking the device to sync it so perhaps thatch also used in piezo energy. Ah, you beat me to it. I was going to suggest the motion generator a number of really small shake-activated generator projects out there. The little generator just needs to get bounced around regularly to pick up a little charge. I don t see where the awake vs asleep times are specified for this. Could it be that they charge a small storage device they say no battery so maybe supercap.

During active, bouncy times the tag gets juice regularly, but as the cap discharges the cycle gets longer. Still wouldn t be bad for something like tagging keys that get bounced around a lot. I would think that you could potentially harvest more energy from motion than you could from background EM. com good-true-tour-ifind-battery-free-feature clearly states that it draws it s power from multiple EM spectra.

I am using EM harvesting in a product of my own. I use a special transducer that is 20 efficient, and it can harvest energy across a 500 Terahertz. patch of spectrum. The active surface area is 20x6mm, and it optimal conditions I ve observed it to deliver a battery charge current of 4. Yep, it s a solar panel.

If you want a cheap way to harvest a lot of energy, it s really the best way to go. Even indoor lighting provides way more energy than virtually every other harvesting method there is. Yep, I m betting they re concealing a small thin-film solar cell. Though it would be FAR cooler if the little tags had a beta-decay battery.

It can t be only a solar cell, since the promotion video shows a tag being tucked into a compartment in a wallet. But maybe their device will rely on several different harvesting methods wireless signals, solar, motion. This is rf harvesting tech coming out of U Illinois and is probably what they are using. Problem is, per the paper, this seems to generate about 460 mV, rather than the 3 volts used by the BLE. If the HAD math of 30uW listed above is the norm for idle draw, then the amount of current they would have to be able to harvest would seem even more unattainable.

I think we re talking 65 uA. Remember the crystal am radio. I know it had a huge coil ant I think it could be done. At under 20 not yet. Miniature size cost money. I was thinking along the same lines. A crystal radio is a classic example of powering a device using only the signal itself. However, as you mention, they typically use a large antenna and only generate enough power to drive a tiny, very sensitive speaker. Maybe they use a printed battery, the capacity is very low. 2mAh 3V for this size, but for being dormant 99.

99 of the time that is good enough. RF energy harvesting seems unlikely to me with typical ambient fields in households. The fact that these guys are showing this SparkFun Electronics, Inc. Accelerometer BreakOut board as the only glimpse of their Engineering says much about their naiveness toward hardware development or better yet faking it. And that s not because of the 3uA they re adding while in sleep mode and 400uA when operatingnot because the current price of this accelerometer would be around 10 their SELLING PRICE or even the EXTREMELY questionable choice of a 3 axis accelerometer given that they don t need to detect orientation just shaking and are on such a tight power budget.

Coup de grâce The component in question is on its EOL EndOfLife no engineer in his right mind would use a EOL parts for a project like this so my guess they don t have any engineers working on it. Tracking down the people responsible for this project. jpg that it was pretty good for a couple of idiots with a camera on his timeline. none of them live in Texas. This is an outstanding bit of investigation that I wish more folks on this thread would discuss. zwang119 2nd year PhD student.

Yuan Song lists under sports Sitting on my Ass and seems to be spending his time playing Fallout 2. It just doesn t scream lean-mean-startup. More green-paint-mashup. Also on KS Atlas Wang s profile says Atlas is a Ph. One only becomes a Ph. candidate at least in the US once you propose your thesis to the committee. Also his expertise doesn t scream low-power RF, energy harvesting etc.

Something is fishy indeed. candidatehowever his webpage clearly articulates that he is only in his 2nd year and probably hasn t even completed his qualifier. Would you mind if we wrote about this on drop-kicker. com and credited you for the research. Be my guest Michael. html these are great resources on the subject .

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