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He s a very thoughtful guy and he makes money he has people like me paying 300 a year and when you have enough of them doing that, it s a living. He lives in Taiwan and he teaches me about the tech world. There s another one that slightly a broader distributed one called, The Informationwhich to the likes of value investors such as you and I, we d have never heard of it but my sense is that this is very widely read.

This is kind of basic knowledge. And you just not going to get. Rob What s the name of that again. Guy That s called, The Information. Rob That s the name of it. I don t know where I found it or how I found it. I think I probably found it through that website, Stratechery. Yeah, it s at, theinformation. I think newspapers are changing so I find that websites like The Wall Street Journal and The New York Times are becoming more inclusive and they re finding the best content providers and they re putting them onto their websites.

I think I ve read too many newspapers. And in reading too many newspapers I was self-consciously aping Warren Buffett but at the same time my world was being viewed as being skewed because I was getting into old world genres, basically. It s not easy. I just have a message for all investors and all of us who want to approach the world of investing intelligently is we can t just ape what Warren Buffett and great value investors have done.

What they ve done in the past, what got them here won t get them there. What will get us to a great place tomorrow is not going to be by reading newspapers the way Warren Buffett reads newspapers. We ve got to intelligently engage with the changing information environment. Something I would tell you I ve done is, I ve started using an aggregator called, Feedly.

There is a woman who covers the automobile industry, Maryann Keller, who s just a phenomenal woman. She s got very, very decisive insights into the automobile industry. She doesn t write for major newspapers. You re not going to see her articles in major newspapers even though they should be there. But Feedly enables me to see her articles when they come up.

I also experimented with a subscription to something called, Factiva. What I like about the information is in Stratechery is that those guys are being paid by me, a few hundred dollars a year to write what is important. The problem with just internet sources is that if it s free, you re paying for it. You just don t realize it. You may just be paying it with an obvious ad which would be fine but you may be paying for it with a bias in the way the news source is coming at you which is quite dangerous.

I think what I like about paid sources is that the bias is clearly there. They charge you for this. But then, hopefully, there are no other biases behind it. But it s tough, it s really tough. Rob Those are some great resources. Guy The other thing I m trying to do in response to the unusual change in environment is that I realize that the best insights will actually come from conversations with people so I need to develop my relationships with people who have insight knowledge and who are themselves, well connected.

That comes with the development of a whole bunch of skills as well. I m in a position where I m prominent enough that if I take something that somebody shares with me and share it with the planet, a lot of people will see if I tweet something out. So, I have to be very careful and thoughtful about what I tweet out, for example. I can t just take whatever arrives in my inbox because a lot of that may be privileged or something that the owner of that would not be happy for me to do that.

If I can develop a reputation of being intelligent and thoughtful about that, sharing what the owner of the information clearly wants me to promote and share it and get exposure for something to where they can feel utterly confident that if they don t want me to share it, I won t. Developing that reputation is really very important. I m far too much on podcasts laughs like yours where it s.

I, on the media side, feel overexposed. Guy Well, I also want to be honest. There are other reasons to do it. Some of the people I respect the most You and I have not heard their names and they re not in the public domain in any way but they have a strong franchise amongst their social network that s adding value in a private way. If we imagine people like Collin Powell who is not a very public guy, but I m certain from his persona that he has some extraordinary relationships and is a guy I would have been so happy to share information with and know that it wouldn t go anywhere.

I would get a lot of value back from that. Behind the Google search bar, there s a whole bunch of knowledge about the world that is never going to make it to the Google search engine because people have an interest in not having it there. It s a real challenge in a certain way. Rob Yeah, it is. Speaking of information, you mentioned in your book that you follow about 20 value investors.

You know, Amazon a few years ago bought this company called Zappos, from Tony Hsieh. You have friendships, obviously, with a lot of value investors. And it s not necessarily going to make its way to the front pages of any newspapers. Are there resources online. I use DataRomaif I ve got the name right. I think it s a pretty good resource but maybe you have others where folks could see what other value investors are investing in. Guy The choice of who to follow is rather interesting.

I m getting to a place as an investor and I think it s partly as a result of size, where I realize it s really smart for me to look at what other investors are doing. For those listening, who might they want to follow if they re a value investor. In a certain way the Berkshire meeting this year was quite hard for me because I didn t own shares of IBM but I had this idea I could put Warren Buffett on such a pedestal where I thought he has got to be right about this.

I ve missed some opportunities and I ve had my head handed to me in certain circumstances because I was overly respectful of the moods of other value investors. I m not willing to earn it myself because I don t really see it. But I know he s going to prove everyone all of the doubters, wrong. Then I come to this meeting and discover he s pretty much sold most of his IBM because he woke up and did make mistakes.

He felt like he wasn t so sure about the future of IBM. I discovered that Warren Buffett is fallible and that s very, very hard for me. At the same time, I have this sort of idiotic idea that Charley and Warren read newspapers, therefore, I should read newspapers. And that may work for them but I need to work out what works for me and I can t ignore the iqoption ltd that I m a connected guy.

I wake up to discover Berkshire Hathaway owns Apple, and that kind of blew apart a whole bunch of attitudes I had towards tech. I m capable of independent thought but I haven t been nearly as independent as I could have been. Follow the investors but don t ever lose your clasp for independent thought. Actually, that happens as you grow so my fund is of the size that I just have to do that, partly. For choosing investors to follow, something that s helped me and it s a running process over time is to say, Why am I following this guy.

Is it because his or her investments are well-known and I can read iqoption ltd them in places like DataRoma or elsewhere. And, I know they have far more resources than I do if an investment has passed their filters. A key element to it is what this reveals about the person s personality and to have a very strong sense about a person s personality and how it differs from mine. So, Bill Ackman is far more willing to be competitive than I am.

But there are other personality aspects. Some people are not willing to take certain kinds of risks. For some people, that s all they do. So to see them in the full picture of whom they are and see the investments they ve made in the full picture of who they are. That makes a big difference. Is this a 20 percent position or iqoption ltd one-percent position. Are they people who take flyers or not and to take all of that into account, and while I m at it, Rob, where they are based. There s a vortex that happens in New York, a kind of group thing that happens in New York that influences my evaluation and understanding of investments of, let s say, David Einhorn, because he s in that New York vortex.

There s a whole group of hedge funds that talk to each other. And, I would just add to this, something else. Just be aware that when you read their 13-Fs, you re not getting the full picture. I don t have to report my international position so the world doesn t know what I own outside of the US because I m not required to report that. Even if you stay in the US, just because you have to report your share ownership doesn t mean you have to report what derivative contracts you own and what short positions you have.

I don t know this for certain, but I have a very strong suspicion that he is often using options and other kinds of derivative contracts with financial intermediaries to have a very different position toward what s publicly displayed. Rob That s a great point. I think that Carl Icahn s 13-Fs say nothing about how he s actually positioned.

Guy Yeah, so he might have gone and had a life just because he wanted to mess with Bill Ackman but he had hedged out all of his exposure one way or another and I think that something he has done is that he ll establish a position in something, give himself voting rights to influence the management and then he buys and sells I think it s called, a corner, in which, as long as the share price moves even if it moves against him, he s going to make out like a bandit.

He s going to go in there and shake things up as badly as he possibly can or as well as he possibly can. It will either work out, or it won t. Either way, he just wants to change the status quo. And, in a certain way, if he loses, he wins. So there are lots of dangers in following investors. The basic idea that still holds is to find somebody who is smart, investing their own money and who is not doing any of these other things.

You can learn a lot about what they ve done and why one might want to follow them or not. I still haven t answered your question as to who and what sources. I sort of pause because I don t have a set list. Guy I don t have a list sort of like, these are the 20 people. I know about five or six guys who are growing their own investment businesses and the majority of them are about 1 10 th the size of what I am. I realize they may become my best source of investment, inside ideas, and the best thing I can do for them is help them build their businesses.

I m always curious to see what they own in their portfolios because they often own some very interesting small-cap companies that I would not really find my way to that easily. But look, I m very interested to know what Warren Buffett owns. I m very interested to know what Tom Gayner owns. I m very interested to know what Bill Ackman owns. I m very interested to know what David Einhorn owns. And there are probably about five or six other investors like that. There is a guy based here in Switzerland who, to me, is a kind of a mixed-meat of personalities.

He s done extraordinarily well by owning things that have a similar profile to Amazon. There s a guy in Miami, Marcelle Lima. I love seeing what he owns when he sends it to me. These aren t so much 13-Fs as they are letters from investors where they talk through what they own. I could make a list but they re not coming to my mind as quickly as I thought they would. Rob No, that s terrific.

You mentioned Einhorn a couple of times so I just have to ask you, what did you think of his proposal that was voted down on creating two classes of GM stock. I know you are very knowledgeable in the auto industry. Mary Barra is a phenomenal woman and knows an enormous amount about the automobile industry. Guy I don t know that I was as knowledgeable as I d like to be. Given the trade-off between financial security and returns sooner, he obviously makes that trade-off differently to let s say, the management, who only a short while ago were in a bankrupt company that had to be restructured in a way that s very hard for those of us who are not inside GM to understand the enormous strain, psychological and otherwise, that the company went through.

Somewhere those two minds have to meet. David Einhorn is a phenomenal guy who knows an enormous amount about the capital markets. So it s a good proposal or at least an interesting proposal. It doesn t rattle the cage icon style. One can understand why the management has a very different view of it. It s not like one is wrong.

I would argue that it s not like one of them is right and one of them is wrong. It s that David Einhorn places more weight on certain things and Mary Barra places more weight on other things. Rob Yeah, I was reminded of a letter, one of Buffett s letters where he talked about because he s often confronted this issue, should Berkshire pay a dividend. My theory has always been, and this theory is unburdened by any knowledge or facts at all laughs but my theory has always been that Berkshire will never pay a dividend until Warren Buffett retires when his time at the helm of that company comes to an end.

His point was, look, you shouldn t care about dividends so long as management s wisely investing their earnings. So, doing smart things with the earnings then, in fact, you shouldn t want a dividend because at that point you won t control the amount, the timing, and you get clobbered with taxes. So, if you need some cash, just sell some shares. In GM s case, and this is true of Ford as well I guess the problem with that at the moment is that some folks aren t happy with the share price.

They want to know why it hasn t been going up when they look across the aisle and they see Tesla that seems to do no wrong, and some say that s why the Ford CEO switch occurred but I don t know. Then I m reminded of another thing Buffett said. And actually, this may have been about IBM ironically. He said he would love to see the stock price of his investments languish for years because it just increases the power of the buybacks, the power if you reinvest dividends.

I kind of think the whole things about GMs share classes and criticisms of Ford s price iqoption ltd I should say I own Ford so I m perfectly happy for the stock price to just bump along as Ford has for the past several years. If I were a Tesla owner I d be a little concerned. Maybe it s just backward thinking. But GM strikes me as a tremendous company and if I were going to invest in it and be an ongoing investor I would love its current stock price. I d hope they could buy back more shares at that price for many quarters to come.

Guy The only tension is that at some point any institution, any investor wants to convert their investment for cash because they need the cash, even if you re an endowment. At some point, Warren Buffett s shares in Berkshire Hathaway will go into the Gates Foundation and at some point Bill Gates won t be around anymore and the Gates Foundation will have I don t know what it is, 10 or 20 years to spend all of it. There is a clause in there that doesn t allow the foundation to last much longer than the founders.

As they spend all of it they want to liquidate their shares and so the share price can t be languished forever and ever. One of the disadvantages that you and I have relative to the Gates Foundation or Berkshire Hathaway is that Berkshire Hathaway is generating new cash and do want the share price to languish for years, whereas, we would like the share price to languish for awhile but we do actually want to be able to sell them at some point and David Einhorn is coming from that perspective.

Now, the truth is the probability a GM or a Ford is going to establish their price language for 10 years if they repurchase half their shares outstanding or more then you ll probably get a double out of it. And again, that s a difference than maybe where you and I have an advantage. An individual investor has an advantage over a guy who runs a fund and I may have an advantage over David Einhorn. He s in New York and he has impatient investors.

And the more patient you can be the more sanguine you can be, and he s getting a little impatient. Rob Yeah, that s a great point. From my perspective, the shares I own are from different companies. I don t own a lot of companies but I m kind of hopeful I never sell them. When the day ends for me I ll just give them to charity. You re right though, if you re running a fund and you ve got investors to keep happy you don t necessarily have that luxury.

Okay, Capital IQ. I listened to several of your interviews that you gave recently. I know you use Capital IQ to do some stock screens. For an individual investor, it s a very expensive tool. Rob Are there any recommendations for tools that an individual investor might use for similar research perhaps not as robust as what Capital IQ offers, but ones you think are still pretty good. Guy At the time that I started doing stock screens I used some software I got from the Association of Individual Investors.

I think they still have that software although I haven t looked recently. And that is around the order of 200, I believe. That is certainly worth looking at. Value-line also has, I believe, lots of data and the ability to screen. Even though I have a subscription to Value-line, I haven t looked inside there to see how good their data is and how easily one can screen. The other thing people have talked to me about, although I have not used it is just using Yahoo. Yahoo is a free service and has an enormous amount of data there.

I ll just think the screens shouldn t be too complicated. You could get hung up on having enormous amounts of data and actually just some very, very simple numbers. The incredible thing is, what you get from Capital IQ is not necessary. For example, just think about companies who have reduced their share count and whose shares have gone up. Something s going on that s right there and it might be a good place to look.

So just very, very simple cuts of the data may be really, really helpful. Rob I go through slowly because when I m really focused on a company I check all of the numbers by hand whether it s return on equity whatever I m focused on, I get out the 10k and I get a piece of paper and I start going through the numbers myself which probably is a good reason why I don t have a lot of stocks because it would take me forever.

That s the nice thing about being a focused investor, you don t have to be right to often just a couple of times is fine. But those are great resources. I m familiar with them. Of course, I ve used Yahoo but I have not used the tools you ve mentioned so those are worth checking out. Guy A question that s worth asking that I think is likely to be at the core of what I do going forward is to ask a question I can t believe I haven t asked myself in the past. It s simply, does this company, this management team deserve my allocation of capital to them.

If you imagine a company that is gouging the customer, the product isn t really worth it and they re finding some way to convince the customer to buy it, maybe they don t deserve your capital. If the company is doing if the management were thinking about themselves as leaders in society and behaved in such a way that they would want everybody else in society to behave, I think you d probably avoid a lot of pitfalls by doing that. What s important about screening is that it s not necessarily going to easily reveal those companies to you.

I just think if I ask myself how many of the companies I ve actually invested in have ended up being the result of a screen, I don t think there are numbers that high. It may just be that the screen is just something I enjoy doing, a bit like playing chess. I go through phases. Only this year I was actually, I should pull it out again. I shared out an email newsletter and I got so many hits to it that I took the link down because I didn t want so many people I thought only three or four people would access the spreadsheet and when I realized 300 or 400 people were accessing the spreadsheet I decided that was too many and took the link down.

Start with the screen. It s like Warren Buffett starting with the As. Maybe the screen is a way of seeding a search. Rob I ve never really used stock screens at all to search for companies but I can see how it would be useful. Well, if Warren Buffett is starting with the As, maybe you and I should start with companies that offer the lowest ratios, for example. One of the things I like to do is compare two companies in the same industry and try to figure out Take two banks, for example.

One has their margins on their interest one is a little higher than the other. Try to understand why. Is it because one bank is taking more risks on their lending portfolio. Or is it because one bank is just able to cut costs and keep costs down better. Whatever the industry is and whatever the companies are, stock screen can maybe help you with that in terms of identifying companies to compare, so that s why I asked. I think it could be helpful. Guy Here s the next step from that which I think many people don t realize is even inside the industry or people who work on the professional side of the industry is that the information and the accessibility to it is expanding at a faster rate than the ability to analyze it.

If you find an insight, Rob, don t assume that the professionals have already seen it. That may be a reason to write it up in a short email and send it to someone who might find that information or that little piece of analysis valuable and useful. And this is something else. I don t know if you enjoyed reading it, but I enjoyed writing it is this idea that just because you re invested into doing analysis doesn t mean you should just be sitting in a dark room having these thoughts on your own.

When you get an insight and I m not saying you should go and post it in the most public place and share it with the world right away, but find some people that might find it valuable and share it with them. See what you get back. And use that to develop a network of relationships that will help looking at new things. The crazy things is, the world is such now that somebody sitting with their own personal portfolios had a career in a particular industry who can send an email to the manager of their local community bank and say, I was looking at these two banks and I was seeing that might result in a very interesting and insightful conversation that may lead to an investment.

It may lead to a better relationship with whomever you sent that insight to. It may lead to all sorts of things. So it s engaging that active dialogue. Don t be a loner on your own. Share with the world in an intelligent way. Rob That s hard for me because I m a loner by nature but that s a good insight. Guy I think in some way, value investors are all loners. We all have issues socializing with other people, which is part of why we are so attracted to this value investing idea.

The way the world works today is we don t actually have to meet the people we converse with. It s like postal chats. Rob Right, right. Postal chats, there s a throwback to the 80s. Guy Exactly. Rob I can tell you, I have started many postal chess games and I ve never finished one. So, I want to make a left turn and then I ll thank you in appreciation for your time. Tony Robbins. You talked about him in your book. Rob I am still where you were 20 years ago with Tony Robbins.

You talked about how you were very resistant to that whole self-help culture, Tony Robbins, but you nevertheless sort of dove into it nevertheless and it turned out to be a very positive thing for you. I just can t wrap my mind around the whole to me it s like a big shtick which I know is grossly unfair. So Tony, if you re listening to my podcast, my apologies. I know that s unfair. But I want to learn from you, Guy. Guy I don t know you well enough.

We haven t met in person but I don t think you should feel bad about that at all. I m sure Tony would accept your apology wholeheartedly and he doesn t feel bad about the fact that you say that. How do I learn from that kind of information. I think the first reaction I have is that humanity is infinite. Minds are infinite. The variety of minds, the variety of ways people are constituted is more than anyone of us can imagine. The fact that Tony Robbins worked for me at that point in my life iqoption ltd not medicine for everyone.

Rob sneezes. Guy Bless you. Rob I don t know how that s going to sound on the audio. Guy So what happened And I can see Rob on this video conferencing we have. There I m talking about Tony Robbins and he said how Tony Robbins, he just doesn t connect with him and I m trying to explain something and he Rob choked on his thoughts laughs which is just a really interesting Freudian event in this podcast.

If you see it as shtick and if it s a total turnoff to you, I m going to honor that. I don t think you should feel any differently about it. I think that s totally fine. That s an indication of something. As long as you understand what it s an indication of there s absolutely no problem with that. I was not far away. I was standing in the back of the room and it looked like total shtick to me too but I was also in desperate need of something.

I was in desperate, desperate need of something to kick-start me, a change in perspective in my personality that would help me start moving toward my goals. If I had been standing further back or had arrived later or if, for some reason, Tony Robbins had been more of a turnoff, I would have not made it over that barrier. But maybe, within a very short period of time, some completely different life event or life experience would have gotten me onto the same path.

Maybe it would have been climbing a mountain or going off on a holiday with friends or transcendental meditation who knows. I just think it s really important. You don t have to get there if Tony Robbins isn t your type of thing. Something I tried to express to as many people as I can is, as long as you re walking somewhere, as long you re on any path of self-exploration, then that s the right thing.

You need to trust yourself as to what that is and don t take anybody s guidance. Don t listen to Guy Spier gushing about Tony Robbins or anything else. In my case, having looked you in the eye at least through video-conferencing I m pretty confident that the way he turns you off, you should not feel concerned about it. When we have to face up to our fears and overcome our internal challenges, I think there are a lot of excuses we find not to do that because we all prefer not to do that.

When we miss the appointment with the psycho therapist, we miss the opportunities to be challenged. I sense in a lot of people who don t want to go to Tony Robbins seminar, that they want to dismiss it and what s really going on is that they re fearful of what they might learn about themselves or they re fearful of making changes.

If the answer is, in all honesty, that you do have to face up to some things in your life that you re still utterly turned off by Tony Robbins, then find another way to face up to those issues. What I d really want to say to them and I don t think it s the case, in your case, is just to say, Is it that you re really turned off by Tony Robbins or is it that you re actually fearful about making changes and facing up to some issue in your life.

I ll give you one simple idea that is coming up for me. Next year will be the 25 th year of my Harvard Business School class so I will go to my 25 th year reunion. Reunions can be really hard events because they force you to confront they forced me to confront what my hopes and dreams were then, what I ve managed to achieve and what I ve not managed to achieve as well as who have I become and how have I changed. That s the reason I encourage all of my friends to attend reunions even if they re not looking forward to it and even if they don t like the feeling of showing up there.

My 10 th year reunion at business school was a very hard reunion because I actually wanted to be married and I wasn t. If it feels bad it may help you to make some really important changes you want to make in your life. I wanted to be married and I didn t even have a girlfriend. For your listeners, the guys who don t like Tony Robbins no problem, as long as you re on a path of growth and learning in some way or other. Rob I read his book, Moneywhich was interesting even though it was long.

That was a great question. I showed up to the reunion and there were all these happy classmates of mine with babies and wives and marriage photos and that was painful for me. And Rob, that wasn t a left turn. But, it helped me to realize what compromises I needed to make and what things I needed to do differently in order to find myself in the position where I was able to get married.

Maybe I need to read, Awaken the Giant Within. Or maybe I don t. It s just that every person I talk to about Tony Robbins and it s come up with other business owners, in particular, that I know. They all love him and I m thinking, Am I missing out. Maybe the better question though, for you is, did you really walk over hot coals. Guy It didn t. Rob I don t get that. I ve done it four or five times.

Rob Did it hurt. Rob There s a trick. There s got to be a trick, right. Guy I don iqoption ltd think it s as much a trick as it simply I suspect if you look at the science carefully, you ll realize that somewhere between the ashes of the hot coals and the limited amount of time you re spending on them, it s not that big a deal. You don t need to get yourself into a peak state or any of those things. The real value of walking over the hot coals is a very powerful metaphor for life.

And doing it in that way, having the preparation that Tony Robbins gives you and the celebration afterwards sears into every person who does the fire-walk, the experience of, I was incredibly fearful. I ve overcome those fears. I took the steps and here I am celebrating. There is so much of life that requires you to do exactly that. One of the things that inspired me is when you ve got somebody who is stuck in a dead-end job working as a payables accountant at some company and they re just too fearful to make the change, they come to the Tony Robbins seminar and they make the change.

They come out and they know their life is going to be better. Or even more moving for me is when somebody and you get this at every seminar, somebody who is a spouse in an abusive marriage where the spouse is abusing them. We ve all read stories in the newspapers about how, when you re an abused spouse, there are all sorts of reasons why you don t leave the situation that is utterly horrific. And every sane person should leave. Tony Robbins gives them the power.

In many cases, you re a self-started. You run your own business, you re a happy guy. You have retirement savings and you re in a really, really fantastic place, but Tony Robbins helps people who are not in such a fantastic place. In some ways it was ridiculous to me that I was not in a great place given the enormous advantages I had in life. I m very grateful to Tony for giving me that kick-start but some people show up to those seminars that don t have any of the advantages I did and come out capable of taking what Tony Robbins would call, massive action.

Rob There s no question he s helped millions of people. Guy I think of this his name s running out of my head but maybe it ll come back if I talk about him. The Sea of Sales Force Corporation credits the whole sales group corporation which the last time I checked had a market valuation of 60 billion, he credits his exposure to Anthony Robbins. I do think that being at a seminar, if you have the time and energy it really is worth showing up to a seminar just to see what it s like, live, because it s experiential learning.

Reading a book is great but it s nowhere near it s less than one-tenth of the value of being in the seminar. Maybe I ll learn something. I would say it s less than 100 th of being in a seminar. Listen, I can t thank you enough for your time. So, Aquamarine Fund, before we go and I ll include links to it as well as to your book in the show notes so people can find them, you re still accepting investors.

Or is that a closed fund. Guy It s not closed. I think that I ve naturally put up all these obstacles to people coming in because I want it to feel to me like it s my family in a club. But yeah, we re open to investors to the right kinds of investors. Rob What s the right kind of investor. Guy It s somebody who, first of all, has the cash to invest with cash they don t need for at least five years if not longer.

And, they want to join me in the enterprise of finding and discovering better businesses to own at a good price and becoming a partner with me in doing that. Specifically becoming a partner with Guy Spier where they don t just want to just be a customer. There are people who have invested with me that I ve not met but I will meet them at my partnership meeting. There s kind of a self-selection going on which is just so enormously fun.

So that s why I say, for the right people. Rob I got this invitation but I m not an investor so I assume the partnership meetings are just for the investors. If somebody s expressed interest in the fund in the past, or if you re just a guy that I am interested in and I m interested in you, Rob. Rob Well, I will see if he s coming to the DC area anytime soon and maybe I ll give it a go.

The partnership meetings become kind of a collection of like-minded people who are either investors in the fund or people who have expressed interest in the fund, or people I m interested in. It s certainly not the Berkshire Hathaway meeting but I think there is part of me that s trying to create a miniature Berkshire Hathaway, if you like, in that I want to collect like-minded people there. Nothing would make me happier than for you it s happened, actually. People meet each other and they find investors.

I know a couple of guys who now share office space. They do business with each other. I mean, I want all of those things to happen. I think that s a lovely thing. Rob Well, God willing, I m going to come this year. One of the reasons is so that 20 years from now when your meeting s at Madison Square Garden because you need a place that big, I ll be able to say, like the Berkshire folks now who went to his meetings in the 80s say, Oh, I was there when we were at the Columbia University Faculty House.

Guy Laughs It is a great location by the way. And I just hope I have something useful to say. Rob Please, please. What I should ask for the listeners, what s the minimum investment. Or is there one. Guy I ve railed against this because it really frustrates me. I d rather have a guy who knows what I m about, who wants to invest 20,000 than a guy who doesn t know anything about what I m about who has 5 million to invest. It was very kind of you to ask though, Rob. But, because of all sorts of regulations, I can only accept an investor we can reduce it from 1 million to 500,000 but we can t go below that.

I m always uncomfortable answering because I want this to be adding value to your listeners and not me talking about whatever product I m touting or something like that. Rob I appreciate that. Look, I can tell you right now, the listeners sense your generosity. There s no question about that. But you re in the business you re an investor.

You ve done extremely well the last two decades. Guy Thank you. Rob If there are listeners that want to explore that more, I think they should know how to so I ll include a link to your website so they ll be able to go and get information there. And I will be sending you back this card. I wish I could come to Zurich but it ll probably have to be New York.

Guy Actually, Rob, just a couple of things. I m having so much fun talking to you. You might split this into two podcasts because there s got to be somebody on a very long commute to listen to this point laughs but I have a small conference I hold every year called, Value X. I ll send you to that website. By the way, Rob, you ll love it. You ll absolutely love it. Rob Not well, but I can fall down a mountain as well as anybody.

Guy It s skiing and talking about investing. It s just an incredible group of guys. A friend of mine based here in Zurich we used to organize a conference together then we had slightly different views and ideas about how to run the conference so we had two different conferences, but my friend John Miljevich in the summertime, has something called the Zurich Project.

You could come here and do 20 phenomenal podcast interviews with some extraordinary minds. I won t give you the name because that would be incredibly embarrassing to him but, I m sitting with this guy at the Zurich Project and after about 20 minutes of conversation he tells me he s actually a friend of Mark Zuckerberg so I immediately fall on the floor. I have to pick myself up and he said, I m just a friend. I m not anything else. We re just buddies. But this guy had sat with Mark Zuckerberg on a regular basis and he s just there hanging out at the Zurich Project.

And, John Miljevich has this publication of managing ideas and in New York they run something called, The Lattice Work. I think he calls it, The Lattice Work, which is a similar kind of idea just like Investment Minds Meeting Investment Minds. It s democratic and relatively low cost. John s is a little bit bigger and slightly more expensive but it s, I think, easier to become a part of it. What am I telling you. There are other places.

There s the Berkshire. Have you been to the Berkshire meeting, Rob. Rob I ve been twice. Once I took my wife and daughter and the other time I took our son. Guy These are all kind of mini Berkshire meeting type of events. It would be great to have you at my partnership meeting. I d be so happy to have you there. Rob I appreciate it. I ll just give you a story.

It s in my book but I was repeating it the other day and it s such an astounding story There I am at my first Berkshire Hathaway meeting and I go to the toilets and I ve just taken a leak that s my English expression. And who comes out of the stalls but Warren Buffett. And I m like, Oh, my God. That s Warren Buffett. He looks at me and he doesn t know me from a bar of soap because I m just one of his many shareholders. And he just smiles at me and says, I always get a little nervous before these things.

It just put the icing on it for me. It humanized him, for me because he was nervous before his own meeting. And the love he showed for his shareholders when I think that Rob Berger, who has a 2,100 rating in chess wants to come to my partnership meeting in New York, just wracks my nerves a little bit. Rob Buffett has a Grand Master that comes well at least every year I ve been, and plays blindfold speed chess, or a simul with, I think it was Patrick Wolfe the last time I was there.

Guy That s right. Rob Well, listen Guy, you ve been terrific. I will definitely be there in New York. This has been a lot of fun. I m going to send this in today. It s been great being on your show. I think more importantly, thank you for providing an extraordinary service to your listeners and readers. Again, you emailed me out of the blue.

I would not have responded the way I did unless I had heard you on the podcast and thought I could see this is a guy who has got no axe to grind. He s got no agenda. He just wants to help other investors, which is great. We need more people like you in the world and we should celebrate the people in the world that are like you. So, I m so happy and honored actually, that you d want me on your podcast so thank you. Rob Thank you, I appreciate it.

Guy I will send you the recording of this. What I d like to believe is that I kind of love playing with technology so if you split the sound track if it s possible, then you will be able to get my side of it recorded locally and your side of it recorded locally and you ll get a high quality for both sides, I hope. It would be terrible if you sent it to me and the audio file was blank laughs.

Rob I hope so too. Let s hope it recorded well. If not, at least you and I will have enjoyed the interview. I will look for that and I thank you. I ll email your folks when it s live but it will be a couple of weeks before we have it up. Do you use some kind of editing service. Rob Well, I edit my own. I normally don t edit interviews at all. Even with my hacking and coughing, I may or may not edit it but I have the software to do that if I need to.

Guy And, is chess24 better than Internet Chess Club. Rob I think chess24 is one of the best out there. You can join for free. They do have a premium thing that gives you a few extra features. It s a great interface, very easy to use. They have an app for the iPhone if you want to play on your phone or iPad. Guy I ll take a look. And, what s your handle. Rob My handle is odd.

It s boogonie. It s actually a nickname I had in college. It was a play on the word Berger and benoni. Benoni is an opening for black that I used to play so somehow they called it the bergnonie I don t know why. But it s boogonie. I have a little picture of myself, kind of like the kind that is in The Wall Street Journal except that I weighed about 30 pounds more than I do today.

Guy You re looking pretty trim, I must say. Rob I look a little chunky on chess24. That s what a bad back will do for you. I had terrible back problems and if you ever want motivation to work out and get into shape, have a bad back. Guy Well, hopefully I ll find another motivation. Again, thank you. I ll look for the audio. It s been great. Guy Have a good rest of the day. My problem is that I don t want to charge anybody any real amount of money so I always have too many people, more people who want to attend than can attend.

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